From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Cc: Emmanuel Vadot , FreeBSD Core Team Bcc: Subject: Re: Working as a team (was: Agenda for this week's meeting) Reply-To: In-Reply-To: <20220718064250.GA73247@eureka.lemis.com> On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 04:42:50PM +1000, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > I really don't know how to answer this message. I get the impression > that you're just against any suggestions. It would be good to > remember that we're supposed to be a team, and that one of the issues > the previous core complained about was conflicts within the team. > Can't we do better? The problem for me at least is the way you do approach this, you are asking point at very generic thing that you think core might be involved with, expecting others to find out what core can do there. But that is not how it works and this is very frustrating approach for many of us. The way it works, is every one should bring his own brick to the edifice, not someone asking others to! like you say there is an issue with FreeBSD on the desktop, then you can start by pointing what you did identify youself. and ask others what they think about it. This is in particular frustrating, when in this particular shift, of the core team, you have many people who have been more than actively working on the desktop, so if we had a clue on what core could do more we would have already weight on it. For example: - I have been work a lot in the past to maintain our x11 stack up to date, including upstreaming things etc. - I have been actively working on bringing it wayland into the ports tree as early as possible - I have been working a lot on the gnome desktop to keep it up to date and functional beside not being a user of it myself. - tcberner have been working on kde since like forever, he has revived the desktop@ in a succesful maner - manu is working on all the graphical stack on his own for a while from the kernel driver to the userland stack! - emaste has been pushing work on the wireless stack which is a major pain for the desktop. As previous core team, core11 has been working via a presence in the graphic meetings (happening on regular basis) to appease the tension withing some of the contributor of the graphic stack, encouraging team work etc. So if you think we can do better, then join the party and come with proposals or at least point at some of the issues that you can witness yourself and feel like they are not addressed. Since the day 1 of this core shift, you have been jumping too fast on one of the request to core, you have been asking others to do work you could have done yourself, you have pissed off the current secretary, you have started threads expecting others to jump in and do work, but yourself haven't shown the example in your own threads. Last week at least 3 of us were in vaccations and it was announced, yet, you have been harassing on the mailing list. Core is all about diplomacy, taking helicopter view about all possible topics, be careful on public interaction, make sure we do interact after having been able to consult as many people in the team as possible. (not necessary everyone if we do need to move fast). By design of the distribution of the team and the fact this is a volunteer project, we cannot all dedicate every day 4 hours to core matters so yes things tends to be slower than one can expect and the hard part of core is to be able to be as fast as possible. While having someone to give the rythm sending reminders on regular basis, it is expected to be done with benevolence. If I take the example of the new secretary, what have prevented you from preparing the welcome email for example, waiting for the vote to end? if the vote ends positively, then just drop the email on behalf of core, if the vote ends with a no we have gain a template for the next potential secretary to propose. Extra bonus, that would have given enough time for everyone to review it.