On Wed, 18 May 2005, Gary Kline wrote: GK>On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 07:05:04PM +0400, Andrey Smirnov wrote: GK>> Gary Kline wrote: GK>> > GK>> > Well, (Gary said, ddeliberately changing the ^Subject:), GK>> > interesting. My mother's parents are from Hungary, two of my GK>> > dad's grandparents from Germany. GK>> > GK>> > Didn't know about Hungary (or Japan). China, yes. Anybody GK>> > on this geek list know any other societies where the surname GK>> > is traditionally presented first and the given name last? GK>> > GK>> GK>> In Russia, in all official documents name is written: GK>> Family_Name First_Name Middle_Name GK>> GK>> So, my full name would be: GK>> Smirnov Andrey Andreevich GK>> GK>> In short form, we usually put first name in head of family name (surname): GK>> Andrey Smirnov GK>> This feels less official. GK>> GK>> So, it's sometimes hard to find out what is what if you don't know GK>> Russian names well. GK> GK> GK> Well, names everywhere that I know of are listed in reverse GK> alphabetical order in (1) documents, (2) telephone directories, GK> (3) attendence records. That only makes sense (IMHO). GK> GK> So far, in conversational reference, say, one might introduce GK> a person from East or Southeast Asia by [ Family_Name, First_Name ]. GK> But almost everywhere else, I think it is the reverse. GK> GK> For example, if we were at a BSD meeting you would introduce me GK> as "Gary Kline" rather than "Kline Gary"; but if you were GK> introducing someone from China, Korea, or Vietnam, you would GK> introduce him Family_Name first. --If I still have this GK> convention wrong, I'd be much obliged if one of my fellow GK> geeks would correct me! GK> GK> Andrey, while I'm talking to a real Russian, I've got a GK> question that you can answer. [[Sorry that this is going GK> far OT, gang, but I've been wondering about this since I read GK> Dostoevsky.]] *Why* are some people addressed by their GK> first name _and_ by what may/must? be their middle names?? GK> I remember some woman who seemed upset at Boris Yeltsin GK> (when he was still President) call him "Boris GK> [A_Very_Long_String_of_Characters]" Is this to indicate GK> irony, or affection, or anger... or what? While Andrey is still typing his answer... Just to make it more confusing: In Russian there are usually dozens, if not hundreds of different forms of the first name: Tatjana - Tanjusha - Tanjucha - Tanja - Tanka - Tanjetschka - Tanjuschetshka ... Some of them having some kind of emotional load which may depend on the concrete situation and the relation between the two people. Furthermore besides refering to one by first name or first+middle name, you can also refer by last name only, which is kind of offending. And you can refer by middle name only which gives it a kind of vulgar intimacy (hope that's the right word for it). GK> ...And now we return to our regularly schduled programming :-) GK> Nice thread. But, yes. hartiReceived on Thu May 19 2005 - 10:06:04 UTC
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