Re: FreeBSD's problems as seen by the BSDForen.de community

Thus Erik Trulsson <ertr1013_at_student.uu.se> spake on Fri, 11 Jan 2008
16:55:38 +0100:

> On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 04:17:56PM +0100, Timo Schoeler wrote:
> > Thus Erik Trulsson <ertr1013_at_student.uu.se> spake on Fri, 11 Jan
> > 2008 16:00:57 +0100:
> > 
> > > On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 02:51:28PM +0100, Timo Schoeler wrote:
> > > > Thus Kris Kennaway <kris_at_FreeBSD.org> spake on Fri, 11 Jan 2008
> > > > 14:12:25 +0100:
> > > > 
> > > > > Timo Schoeler wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > >> It will even go into the CVS tree (though probably not
> > > > > >> into GENERIC) if the source is clean, style(9)-compliant
> > > > > >> and well maintained.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > It should do with *one* exception: Every other, more
> > > > > > important problem (e.g. getting ZFS to v9) is *solved*. If
> > > > > > this is the case, import the USB christmas tree device
> > > > > > driver and introduce dev.xmastree.lamps.blink as sysctl,
> > > > > > absolutely no problem.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >> But even if it doesn't go into the
> > > > > >> tree, that's not a big deal.  For example, for several
> > > > > >> years I maintained some patches that improved syscons
> > > > > >> (kern/15436).  They didn't go into CVS, but they worked
> > > > > >> fine for me and a few others.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > But I bet you would be fine with it in the tree as well as
> > > > > > some others, if not all others? If so, why didn't it get
> > > > > > into the tree? Maybe because some lower-priority USB
> > > > > > christmas device driver was imported instead?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > This is the crucial point I wanted to show: *Priorities*.
> > > > > 
> > > > > You are making the incorrect assumption that one developer
> > > > > working on e.g. your /dev/uxmas in any way effects the
> > > > > development of other "more important" parts of the tree.
> > > > 
> > > > No, I didn't. I said that the work is done ineffectively as he's
> > > > doing underprioritized stuff. Working on higher prioritized
> > > > stuff would be more efficient, and would help the project even
> > > > more.
> > > 
> > > But he is probably working on high priority stuff.  High priority
> > > according to *his* priorities that is, not your priorities.
> > 
> > I don't have priorities on what he's working on, but the
> > project/community has.
> 
> The project/community is an abstract entity that does not have any
> opinions or priorities of its own.

This entity has goals, from which priorities (to achieve them in the
best possible manner) and maybe opinions are derived from:

http://www.freebsd.org/about.html

http://www.freebsd.org/~blackend/flyer-logo.pdf

http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/

etc.

> Indviduals within the
> project/community have priorities - often different priorities.

That would be a nice demonstration of the first really working
democracy on earth. Especially, when it'd follow the votes/wishes of
the majority of each named priority -- which depends on the goals of
this community and also gives feedback.

> > And as he's part of this community -- he chose
> > being part of it -- he should do what is best for the community. Not
> > what is 2nd or 3rd best. Period.
> 
> Sure - as long as I get to decide what is best for the community. :-)

You have your vote. If you belong to the majority that voted similar,
you're fine. If not, try to convince others or even better, create a
better solution for the problem that was voted about (how to solve).

> Otherwise I will just note that I am not a great fan of communism.

You probably don't have the slightiest idea of what communism really
is. You're just parroting some stupid propaganda...

(There never was something like communism on this planet up to this
day.)

> > > > Given the assumption that the developer is able to do both, the
> > > > Xmas tree as well as importing ZFS v9 into the tree.
> > > > 
> > > > (I don't see the point that when somebody is really *capable* of
> > > > doing both things, why should (s)he do the 'lower priority'
> > > > thing. If you are at the olympic stadium and you're the best
> > > > sprinter, you wouldn't join the marathon...!)
> > > 
> > > Because he thinks the 'lower priority' thing is more fun, and
> > > doesn't care at all about the stuff that you happen to think
> > > should be high priority.
> > 
> > There's no *me* or *I*, there's a project/community. Should I spell
> > it? :)
> 
> It wouldn't help to spell it out - it would still be just as wrong.

Another god-like person. There must be a nest of you somewhere....

> > > > > In almost all cases it does
> > > > > not.  If they were not working on that "lower priority" code,
> > > > > they would not be working on your "more important" code
> > > > > anyway, unless they already wanted to do that.
> > > > 
> > > > That's just a lack of responsibility, morals, and enthusiasm.
> > > > So, why code at all?
> > > > 
> > > > > Kris
> > > > 
> > > > Timo
> 
> -- 
> <Insert your favourite quote here.>
> Erik Trulsson
> ertr1013_at_student.uu.se