Re: [CFT] packaging the base system with pkg(8)

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 04:22:31AM +0000, Glen Barber wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 07:15:22AM +0300, dan_partelly wrote:
> > On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 04:07:11 +0000, Glen Barber <gjb_at_FreeBSD.org> wrote:
> > > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 06:59:38AM +0300, dan_partelly wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> > 
> > >> > Sadly the tenor and tone of the discussion isn’t one where progress
> > is
> > >> > made. The tone has been a bit toxic and demanding, which grinds
> > people
> > >> into
> > >> > dust, rather than motivating them to fix things. You might call it a
> > >> > discussion, but it reads to me more as a bunch of angry villagers
> > >> storming
> > >> > the castle. No good can come from that. Tone down the outrage by a
> > >> factor
> > >> > of 100 and try to have the conversation again.
> > >> > 
> > >> 
> > >> I'm frankly perplexed by this statement. Its seldom I perceived so much
> > 
> > >> sorrow and bitterness in 6 lines. There is no castle Warner, unless you
> > >> want one to exist, one where you can isolate yourself from the
> > >> indentured
> > >> peasants and anything they say. Beyond your thick walls you'll be well
> > >> served,
> > >> every idea outside your wals will be toned down by a factor of 100 by
> > the
> > >> time
> > >> it reaches  the lord, becoming total agreement with anything the lord
> > >> thinks. 
> > >> 
> > >> I cant believe I wrote this shit. But then again, I cant believe you
> > just
> > >> wrote
> > >> what you did.
> > >> 
> > > 
> > > And it's responses like this that are severely demotivating.
> > 
> > Such statements, such answers. But Im done with this. It degenerates
> > in emotional outbursts, much to the shame of all parts involved.
> > 
> 
> You're absolutely right.
> 
> I apologize for offending you and the countless hours spent on getting
> this new model correct.
> 
> What was I thinking?

Glen, you do hard work and we much appreciated to you.
But some don't have fluent english, for examle, I, and I can't create
political sentense on english, restrict to pithy and informative
sentense.

Also, I am to long work with many comercial vendors and have some
deformation, for example, when introductin new feature and don't
provide direct promise of save old competition functionality -- in
near, very near future this functionality will be removed. Please, do
direct promise and describe you vision. We only see you commit and
nothing more, this is too smal and we worry.

Yes, now 11 is -current. But after mont -- this is STABLE and nothing
to change w/o POLA violation! Price of flaw now very high (for project
in first case).

Yes, FreeBSD need new model for update and upgrade. But this tool
implemented once have long impact and need have compatible more then
base system.

I am want cool FreeBSD and try to help this, by my expirens in system
maintenance (not only FreeBSD). My expirense talk: change is very
expensive. May be need do not put 11 to stable. Or may be schedule to
some month. Or except this suvsystem from POLA. I am don't know. What
you vision? What main distribution will be used in 11-RELEASE?
What status will be have base packaging in 11?