Re: ACX100 Firmware Licensing

Sam Leffler wrote:
> Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>> Sam Leffler <sam_at_errno.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
>>> IMO the openbsd folks are going about this entirely wrong.  They
>>> are badgering folks and creating ill will for the ENTIRE open source
>>> community.  I suggest folks not join in to this ill-conceived plan.

I disagree with much of what you say later on (fair warning :-), but before I 
do so, this is a key aspect of your position which I strongly agree with:

Badgering or harassing people almost always is counterproductive, and we ("we" 
meaning the open source community) should avoid doing so.  In particular, 
mass-mailing a bunch of people at TI as a first contact rather than through 
normal sales channels is hardly the best way of communicating with them.

This being said, if we collectively do not say anything at all and the status 
quo that TI offers no support for open source drivers remains, the situation 
cannot get any worse.  Any change we make would be an improvement, and even 
bad communication is better than no communication...

>> No, it has worked in the past and progress is being made as we are
>> speaking.  Some companies are simply not willing to enter into a
>> dialog unless they hear sufficient voices to convince them that
>> they are dealing with more than a lone caller in the wild.
[ ... ]
>> "Activism pays off for OpenBSD"
>> http://theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/29/1098992287663.html

...which is about the same point that Chris makes.  It would be just as well 
to figure out a way of communicating with hardware vendors that makes the 
point without annoying them.

[ ... ]
> And this form of activism also turns off lots of vendors.  The open 
> source market is virtually non-existent to vendors so you will never get 
> anyone to do anything by arguing they should make a change because it 
> will increase their sales.

The first and last part of this comment have some validity, but the connection 
you make in the middle is dubious.  There are plenty of vendors who list MacOS 
X, Linux and even FreeBSD drivers on their websites, and/or ship those drivers 
with the OEM CD.  Vendors like Intel, Adaptec, 3com, 3ware, VIA, & Linksys, or 
nVidia and ATI, among others, for example.  [1]

IMO, the best way of communicating with a vendor is to tell them that you are 
interested in their products, and then you communicate the context.  Lets say 
you are an IT subcontractor who is looking to purchase 30 laptop and 30 
desktop systems for a client who has a $250K budget and wants to modernize 
their company's computer infrastructure.  Tell them that half of the desktops 
(or 90%, or whatever the situation is) are going to used for Windows, but some 
of the machines will be running Linux (or FreeBSD, or OpenBSD, etc), and the 
existence of driver support for open source systems will affect your 
purchasing decisions.

Asking a vendor salescritter to make you a proposal that meets your criteria, 
and having them ask around in-house about open source support-- having *them* 
decide it's a good idea themselves, in order to make a sale-- works much 
better than talking to a vendor about losing business to their competitors.

Sure, it's the truth, but very few people manage to separate the content of a 
message from its presentation.  Or put more simply, have you ever told someone 
"hey, you're an idiot, and you should obviously do XXX?"...and had that person 
stop, think it over, and agree with you?

Probably not.  Even if the fact of the matter is that you *are* being an idiot 
and doing XXX actually would be in your own best interest, very few people 
manage to look past that presentation. :-)

> All the vendors Theo&co are going after are bit players with inferior
> products that are in trouble in one way or another.

Ouch!

#if defined(SENSE_OF_HUMOR)
You're starting to sound like wpaul_at_ or sos_at_.  Are people who write device 
drivers allowed to be cheerful and optimistic once in a while, or is there a 
rule somewhere that says you have to be cynical and morose?
#endif /* SENSE_OF_HUMOR [2] */

> The proper way to make things happen is to find a vendor that 
> is basing a product on an OSS and use their influence to make things 
> happen.

The context for the word "proper" here is not self-evident.

I don't see anything wrong with going through a sales contact asking for a 
proposal, and indicating your requirements so they know what you want.  If the 
vendor decides not to do business with you, that's fine, but it doesn't hurt 
to ask.

-- 
-Chuck

[1]: The vendor list is incomplete and was chosen off the top of my head.  The 
OS list was chosen by frequency.  s/MacOS X/Darwin, if that pleases you more.

[2]: Please double-check your preprocessor and re-evaluate the conditional 
before compiling a flame in response to this section.