Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years

Let us take this further.

Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions.  Well, lets not, Linux 
is so far ahead of BSD.  Linux understands the user.

BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors.  The size 
to capability is outstanding. Once you have the core OS on the system it 
is rock steady and only getting better.  The documentation is 
outstanding. It is what others should look to.

So what is wrong?

It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough 
users. Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are tech 
savvy.

When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's.  The 
front-end is like something from the DOS days.  You have to be tech 
savvy to know what you want to do.  You have to search out all the 
variations of the applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full 
package -- Examples: Postgres, PHP, etc.  To add wireless (very common 
these day), you better set aside as much time or more as doing the 
initial install.

Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would develop 
on it, at least secondarily.  But no.  Java - go fish.  All the 
development environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, NetBean, 
Hibernation, Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get.  You feel like a 
rabbit jumping around, and then it most likely doesn't work.  That is 
such a turn off.

As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look 
at the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You don't 
have to copy, but emulate.  (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.)

I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista), 
and the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there is 
little in common with the rest.

Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more 
installs and more people on the systems.  That means more installs to 
laptops. The installs have to be seamless and complete.  That mean 
getting more Open Source people and companies to compile and distribute BSD.

I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click 
with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go 
advance and do special custom work).


-Curtis


Rob Lytle wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998.
> 
> 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an incredibly
> tedious miserable process.  I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times.
> If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages after
> obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install.  Its frustrating and almost
> like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than
> reboots.
> 
> 2.  When installing any given package, if a dependency is already there ,
> the  package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to press
> OK half a dozen times.  Thats insane.
> 
> I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at
> once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3.  As for the second case, I don't know
> enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps
> comment that code in its entirety or put in  switch to bypass already
> installed dependencies.
> 
> I wish I knew more about  your infrastructure to fix this myself.  Is it
> written in Python?  Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at.  I've
> programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago.  I'm old.  But someone who
> knows the system could probably fix it fast.  I think this is such an
> inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug report
> would be futile.
> 
> Food for thought.  Thanks,
> 
> Rob
> 
>