On 2018-08-25 21:20, blubee blubeeme wrote: > On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 9:08 AM Paul McNary <pmcnary_at_cameron.net> wrote: > >> I think you can pay XinuOS to support FreeBSD in a LTS situation. >> It is just like linux where you have to pay Red Hat, Suse, etc. >> They break things even with point releases. Suse majorly >> screwed with video drivers back in the 9.x series. Totally >> broke major release. Their answer then was pay us or >> re-install bare metal and figure it out on your own. >> Other wise linux has always been, you get what you get for free. >> BSD is the same. If you are lucky some one like red hat, suse, XinuOS >> will be supporting and make their notes public, otherwise the >> OSS model doesn't include anything more than community support >> for what ever that is worth. >> I just upgraded a system from FreeBSD 9.x to 12.x, it took 2 weeks and >> several incremental upgrades sometimes to multiple point releases >> with in a major release. There is nothing really for free. >> >> >> On 8/25/2018 7:47 PM, blubee blubeeme wrote: >>> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 8:16 AM Johannes Lundberg <johalun0_at_gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 00:25 blubee blubeeme <gurenchan_at_gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 2:08 AM Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des_at_des.no> >> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> blubee blubeeme <gurenchan_at_gmail.com> writes: >>>>>>> True on both points my tone is just a reflection of attitudes of the >>>>>>> individuals that I am currently addressing. >>>>>> Well, congratulations on alienating absolutely everybody you have >>>>>> interacted with on this topic. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Some people enjoy making contributions w/o waving a banner constantly >>>>>>> wanting acknowledgement, a pat on the head and good job from >> everyone. >>>>>> The only person I see constantly craving attention and validation from >>>>>> others here is you. >>>>>> >>>>>>> How far will core FreeBSD bend over backwards to accommodate these >>>>>>> devs. >>>>>> The core team does not decide what goes into the tree or not. The >>>>>> developers do. >>>>>> >>>>>>> This is the beauty of an open source project, we bring the best to >> the >>>>>>> table, [...] >>>>>> Who exactly is “we” here? You are not a member of the project, you do >>>>>> not speak for the project, and after seeing how you treat our fellow >>>>>> developers, our friends, most of us want nothing to do with you. If >>>>>> can't live with that, I'm sure you can figure out how to install >> Linux. >>>>>> >>>>>> DES >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des_at_des.no >>>>> >>>>> Some on here want to attack my personality because they think that I am >>>>> abrasive, fine but that's not the issue. >>>>> >>>>> Some claim that they run the code and it works wonderful for them with >> no >>>>> issues, again that's lovely keep on running the code. >>>>> >>>>> Nevertheless let me restate the point that you guys are all seeming >> to >>>>> miss; If you can go out and build custom kernels with custom options >> and >>>>> out of mainline tree that's fine, keep doing that until you have >> something >>>>> that's production ready and as easy to install as the rest of FreeBSD >>>>> system. >>>>> >>>>> The graphics stack on FreeBSD is pretty bad as it stands but all the >>>>> documentation currently out there is about using it as it stands now. >>>>> >>>>> Why do you need to rip out the current graphics drivers which will >> break >>>>> systems for the vast majority of silent users who will not complain and >>>>> just leave? >>>>> >>>>> ---- A little background ---- >>>>> Do you know why Samsung, Motorola, Sony, LG, Nokia, etc... never update >>>>> their phones to the latest android version? >>>>> >>>>> It's because the Linux kernel is such a mess they know it's a waste of >>>>> resources to try. You should not have to ask how or why I know this >> but if >>>>> it's unclear I was in the field. >>>>> ----------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Now you guys who claim to only be hobbyist doing this in their free >> time >>>>> expect to maintain this when those companies with all their resources >>>>> cannot? >>>>> >>>>> Those 30,000 ports many of them bring bugs with them because of this >>>>> Linuxkpi stuff. Just recently there was a user who said google earth >>>>> doesn't work the answer was it doesn't work and that's that. >>>>> >>>>> They get ported and then get dropped so while the ports tree is large, >> if >>>>> you actually try to use some of those programs they are broken, >>>>> maintenance >>>>> hell for the developers and confusion for the users. >>>>> >>>>> Johannes Lundberg I know that you are one of the main working on this >>>>> linuxkpi stuff but anyone else is free to answer as well. >>>>> >>>>> Let's have an open discussion why do you need to remove the current >>>>> graphics stack to continue with your work? >>>> >>>> This has been discussed over and over on the mailing list and I don’t >>>> think anyone wants to do it over again so please feel free to search the >>>> archives. >>>> >>>> You’re misinformed. We are not removing anything for anyone. We are >> moving >>>> it to ports. >>>> “pkg install drm-legacy-kmod” will install those drivers for you that >> were >>>> earlier in base. I thought we have been clear about this but maybe we >>>> haven’t been clear enough. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> freebsd-current_at_freebsd.org mailing list >>>>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " >> freebsd-current-unsubscribe_at_freebsd.org >>>>> " >>>>> >>>> Have you or anyone working on this drm-legacy-kmod stuff done any >> testings >>> of how this will affect current users? >>> >>> 1) Take a [test] system with the current graphics stack installed and >>> working. >>> 2) Apply your patches to remove the drm from base to create a port >>> 3) update the working [test] system after applying your changes >>> >>> How does your changes affect a [test] system that is already up and >> running? >>> >>> Have any of you guys tried that? Do you have any documentation on how >> it'll >>> affect users. >>> >>> You guys want to remove things from the current system but you come with; >>> it works for us hobbyists. >>> Where do users go to get steps to do all of this stuff? >>> >>> You've repeatedly said what you want to do sure, but have you tested it? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-stable_at_freebsd.org mailing list >>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe_at_freebsd.org >> " >> >> > I'll just post this again to try and keep the focus on the issue at hand. > ========================= > Have you or anyone working on this drm-legacy-kmod stuff done any testings > of how this will affect current users? > > 1) Take a [test] system with the current graphics stack installed and > working. > 2) Apply your patches to remove the drm from base to create a port > 3) update the working [test] system after applying your changes > > How does your changes affect a [test] system that is already up and running? > > Have any of you guys tried that? Do you have any documentation on how it'll > affect users. > > You guys want to remove things from the current system but you come with; > it works for us hobbyists. > Where do users go to get steps to do all of this stuff? > > You've repeatedly said what you want to do sure, but have you tested it? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current_at_freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe_at_freebsd.org" > You have obviously not been paying attention. The patch will result in your upgraded system giving you an deprecation warning message, with instructions on installing the port. -- Allan Jude
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