Re: CVS removal from the base

On 12/4/11 9:21 PM, Daniel Eischen wrote:
> On Dec 4, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Julian Elischer<julian_at_freebsd.org>  wrote:
>
>> On 12/4/11 3:36 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
>>>> This seems too reasonable a suggestion, but, as always, the devil
>>>> is in the details. There will be long. painful discussions (and
>>>> arguments) about what to remove from the base to the new structure
>>>> and what things currently NOT in the base should be promoted.
>>> as one with a long list of WITHOUT_foo=YES in /etc/src.conf, this is
>>> tempting.  but, as you hint, is this not just doubling the number of
>>> borders over which we can argue?
>>>
>>> but let's get concrete here.
>>>
>>> i suspect that my install pattern is similar to others
>>>    o custom install so i can split filesystems the way i prefer,
>>>      enabling net&   ssh
>>>    o pkg_add -r { bash, rsync, emacs-nox11 } (it's not a computer
>>>      if it does not have emacs)
>>>    o hack /etc/ssh/sshd_conf to allow root with password
>>>    o rsync over ~root
>>>    o hack /etc/ssh/sshd_conf to allow root only without-password
>>>    o rsync over my standard /etc/foo (incl make.conf and src.conf)
>>>      and other gunk
>>>    o csup releng_X kernel, world, doc, ports
>>>    o build and install kernel and world
>>>
>>> and then do whatever is special for this particular system.
>>>
>>> anything which would lessen/simplify the above would be much
>>> appreciated.  anything not totally obiously wonderful which would
>>> increase/complicate the above would not be appreciated.
>> my suggestion is that the 'sysports' or 'foundation ports'  or
>> 'basic ports', (or whatever you want to call them) in their package
>> form come with the standard install in fact I'd suggest that they
>> get installed into some directory by default so that 'enabling' them
>> ata later time doesn't even have to fetch them to do the pkg_add.
>>
>> They have pre-installed entries in /etc/defaults/rc.conf. and only their rc,d
>> files need to beinstalled into /etc along with their program files.
>> They are as close to being as they are now with the exception of
>> being installed in the final step instead of at the same time as the rest of the stuff,
>> and it allows them to easily be 'deinstalled' and replaced by newer versions.
> I really don't understand how this is much different than having them exist in base.  We have WITHOU_foo (I don't really care if that were to become WITH_foo if we want to default to a more minimum system), so one can always use ports if they want some different version of foo.  And it's not just releases we care about, we want a stable foo (BIND for example) with security and bug fixes throughout all updates to -stable, not just at releases.
>
> I want to do one buildworld and have a complete and integrated system.  I don't see how having a separate repo for sysports helps; it is yet another thing I have to track.  And are ports in sysports going to default to being installed in / or /usr/local?

I think there are several differences..
1/ The ability to UNINSTALL it and replace it completely with a 
differnet version
2/ allow easy leave-out   feature..  leaving it out is less risky..
3/ probably the most important.. allowing both ports and src 
developers to work on the packages.
4/ allowing us to promote some of the commonly used packages to a more 
supported level without actually bringing them into the base system.

> --
> DE
>