Re: tmux(1) in base

Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote, in part:

> Sergey Vinogradov <boogie_at_lazybytes.org> writes:
>> I always wondered about are sendmail
>> and bind9. These are pretty heavy, and definitely are not used in every
>> single installation. Maybe someday I'll see sendmail and bind9 in ports
>> instead of base system. And yes, I know about WITHOUT_BIND= and
>> WITHOUT_SENDMAIL= :)

> 2) Sendmail is used at least twice a day + once a week + once a month on
>    every single FreeBSD installation in the world except those where the
>    admin has intentionally installed and configured another MTA.

That is to say, it's used by all systems that choose to keep using it.
Many don't.

> 3) Both BIND and Sendmail have strong historical ties to BSD, and a lot
>    of users would be very surprised to find them missing from the next
>    release.

User surprise was not a sufficient reason not to remove Perl.

"Missing" does not seem like the right word to describe an application
easily installed from ports.

> 4) The FreeBSD project has strong ties to and good working relationships
>    with the people and organizations who write and maintain BIND and
>    Sendmail, ensuring that they are well integrated into our codebase,
>    that any concerns we should have about them are given serious
>    consideration, that we always receive ample advance notification of
>    any know problems, etc.

This would be equally true and valuable if the programs were to be moved
to ports.

> 5) Both BIND and Sendmail are mature, robust, highly regarded, actively
>    maintained pieces of software with strong developer and user
>    communities.  Unbound, DMA, or whatever it is you would replace them
>    with can only dream of enjoying a fraction of the respect that BIND
>    and Sendmail command in the industry.

Some don't need them and would like a system without them. It's not
about respect or newer alternatives.

> 6) This discussion comes up with depressing regularity.  The arguments
>    on both sides are always the same, as is the conclusion: you can have
>    BIND and Sendmail when you pry them out of Beastie's cold, dead
>    fingers.  Now go write some code.

Perhaps this discussion comes up with depressing regularity because some
"cold dead fingers"-type people seem a bit obstinate about an obvious
streamlining.

> 
> DES